For the life of me I do not understand why some people cannot (refuse to?) understand that these men in public doing their womanface shtick are getting off on it...in public! Get off on someone even glancing at them in their ridiculous outfits. Yet, men in womanface being born in the wrong sex body makes sense to them. Her questions strike me as disingenuous. Seems like performative ignorance.
Thrace 'works' for Genspect. She is also trying to sell her book. Here is the blurb from Amazon:
"...Shannon is no stranger to alternative lifestyles. Raised by Christian parents in Bluegrass country, she fled to the city, scraped together an education, worked for drag shows and befriended poets and anarchists at clothing-optional parties. By the time she settled into her 14-year relationship with Jamie, she had dated women and experimented with polyamory.
So when her husband begins crossdressing, she sees no problem--she enjoys flouting the straight world's pointless rules. Trouble is brewing, though. Jamie's dive into the world of identity leads to shifting values, sexual dysfunction and a crippling depression. Still deeply in love with the kind, outdoorsy folksinger she once knew, Shannon is committed to working through these challenges. But she is blindsided by the unusual demands of gender dysphoria and learns the hard way that compassion, communication, and even love sometimes just aren’t enough.
18 Months is a fierce defense of love in the face of loss, culminating in self-discovery and reinvention...."
So...minimizing abuse or actually calling it 'good'. No wonder she's thrown her lot in with the Bailey/Blanchard bunch. She's a rare find: an abuse victim who'll stand with the abusers.
Sadly, not a rare find at all. To truly acknowledge she was a victim may mean seeing herself as having been disempowered, which is scary. Even scarier, she may have to look at abuse she suffered in childhood. Scariest, acknowledging, and letting go of, how she is abusive/a perv.. I don't really know anything about her, but hope she doesn't have children. The perv sympathizers are deeply disheartening, and exhausting.
Thrace uses interesting linguistic maneuvers to load her questions in the direction she apparently wishes to go. One is individualizing the whole thing. She says things like, what if your back is turned? What if he’s in a private home? When we all know the complaint is the public performance required to achieve an AGP goal. To use Karen’s subway example, Karen is not the only person on the subway, nor the only audience for the AGP. If Karen is terf-ing away on her phone the whole while and never sees him, or to use Thrace’s scenario, has her back to him, IT DOESN’T MATTER. He’s playing to the general public, there are other people around, and, yes, that makes some people unwilling participants.
The other thing she does is strip the scenario of social context, nuance, nonverbal communication, and sometimes even costume. So she presents the example of the man “normally dressed” having sexual thoughts about you. Are you “drawn in” then? The implication is; you don’t know what he’s thinking. (BTW, this is reminiscent of O’Malley in one of her post Genspect interviews, talking of Phil Illy, saying, AGPs don’t have sexual thoughts all the time! Sometimes they’re just buying groceries. Words to that effect.) As Karen ably points out, men usually give nonverbal cues that this is what they are doing. Is the guy staring at you? Did he deliberately choose a seat, when many are available, where he can do so? Did he look you up and down? Thrace allows no context, however.
Anyone who brings up any context is immediately ruled as NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTION. For example, someone replies, “once you know/believe someone has AGP (either they have said it or you spot enough indicators - not all TW are AGPs), when you interact with them you know you're actively included in the performance and that the performance is all about audience participation.” To which Thrace responds, “I’m looking for responses to the question.”
She focuses especially on the words “drawn in” to imply critics are suggesting the AGP has forced the individual onlooker into some action, and if yes, why are they giving up their “internal locus of control” - to use her psychobabble. In other words, aren’t you in charge of yourself? Don’t you have any individual agency? The whole thing is deeply dishonest.
「and if yes, why are they giving up their “internal locus of control” 」
In terms of discourse, this is barely a step above when "progressive" men were asking why Will Thomas' teammates were choosing to look at his 🍆 Shocking how many will just go along with it
This woman is some kind of an exhibitionist herself.
I was listening to a space about this thread of hers and someone who used to work for a phone line for victims of sexual assault said it read like a sick exercise in self pleasure, like some calls from perverts they’d get who would get off on describing their fantasies to a stranger.
I don’t think she’s wrong. Shannon also likes to talk about her unusually high sex drive on twitter.
What, is the dude 40 something and dressed in Loli? Wonderful. Absolutely nothing fetishist in nature. Black Butler, as in the poster on the wall is an amime and the story supposedly has a plot that has something supposedly to do with man-child love. I personally didn't catch it when I watched a while back and to be honest, I enjoyed the anime... but when I didn't understand the meaning behind the final episode, I was appalled to find out lots more than I wanted to.
That poster is no accident since Black Butler is not a well known anime and the creature posing in front of it likes to dress like a child.
I read her book. It is the document of a troubled woman - even before her husband started flouncing about in skirts. It is also written with obvious equivocation; she still hasn't taken any responsibility for her own behavior (she was functional adult after all) much less come to terms with his. I am not surprised she has found a home with GenSpect.
For the life of me I do not understand why some people cannot (refuse to?) understand that these men in public doing their womanface shtick are getting off on it...in public! Get off on someone even glancing at them in their ridiculous outfits. Yet, men in womanface being born in the wrong sex body makes sense to them. Her questions strike me as disingenuous. Seems like performative ignorance.
How could a self-respecting woman be w/ a man like that or stay w/ him for any length of time.
Thrace 'works' for Genspect. She is also trying to sell her book. Here is the blurb from Amazon:
"...Shannon is no stranger to alternative lifestyles. Raised by Christian parents in Bluegrass country, she fled to the city, scraped together an education, worked for drag shows and befriended poets and anarchists at clothing-optional parties. By the time she settled into her 14-year relationship with Jamie, she had dated women and experimented with polyamory.
So when her husband begins crossdressing, she sees no problem--she enjoys flouting the straight world's pointless rules. Trouble is brewing, though. Jamie's dive into the world of identity leads to shifting values, sexual dysfunction and a crippling depression. Still deeply in love with the kind, outdoorsy folksinger she once knew, Shannon is committed to working through these challenges. But she is blindsided by the unusual demands of gender dysphoria and learns the hard way that compassion, communication, and even love sometimes just aren’t enough.
18 Months is a fierce defense of love in the face of loss, culminating in self-discovery and reinvention...."
So...minimizing abuse or actually calling it 'good'. No wonder she's thrown her lot in with the Bailey/Blanchard bunch. She's a rare find: an abuse victim who'll stand with the abusers.
Sadly, not a rare find at all. To truly acknowledge she was a victim may mean seeing herself as having been disempowered, which is scary. Even scarier, she may have to look at abuse she suffered in childhood. Scariest, acknowledging, and letting go of, how she is abusive/a perv.. I don't really know anything about her, but hope she doesn't have children. The perv sympathizers are deeply disheartening, and exhausting.
A little bit of sick came up when I read this.
"Unwilling Participant" ... there's a wreck on side of road & you slow down to Rubberneck only to be rear-ended into OG wreck.
Also known as collateral damage.
Revulsion a.k.a. visceral disgust a.k.a. instinctual (innate) response to certain (external) stimuli.
Ms Thrace is being wilfully ignorant.
It's not ignorance. It's contempt.
Thrace uses interesting linguistic maneuvers to load her questions in the direction she apparently wishes to go. One is individualizing the whole thing. She says things like, what if your back is turned? What if he’s in a private home? When we all know the complaint is the public performance required to achieve an AGP goal. To use Karen’s subway example, Karen is not the only person on the subway, nor the only audience for the AGP. If Karen is terf-ing away on her phone the whole while and never sees him, or to use Thrace’s scenario, has her back to him, IT DOESN’T MATTER. He’s playing to the general public, there are other people around, and, yes, that makes some people unwilling participants.
The other thing she does is strip the scenario of social context, nuance, nonverbal communication, and sometimes even costume. So she presents the example of the man “normally dressed” having sexual thoughts about you. Are you “drawn in” then? The implication is; you don’t know what he’s thinking. (BTW, this is reminiscent of O’Malley in one of her post Genspect interviews, talking of Phil Illy, saying, AGPs don’t have sexual thoughts all the time! Sometimes they’re just buying groceries. Words to that effect.) As Karen ably points out, men usually give nonverbal cues that this is what they are doing. Is the guy staring at you? Did he deliberately choose a seat, when many are available, where he can do so? Did he look you up and down? Thrace allows no context, however.
Anyone who brings up any context is immediately ruled as NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTION. For example, someone replies, “once you know/believe someone has AGP (either they have said it or you spot enough indicators - not all TW are AGPs), when you interact with them you know you're actively included in the performance and that the performance is all about audience participation.” To which Thrace responds, “I’m looking for responses to the question.”
She focuses especially on the words “drawn in” to imply critics are suggesting the AGP has forced the individual onlooker into some action, and if yes, why are they giving up their “internal locus of control” - to use her psychobabble. In other words, aren’t you in charge of yourself? Don’t you have any individual agency? The whole thing is deeply dishonest.
Excellent analysis.
「and if yes, why are they giving up their “internal locus of control” 」
In terms of discourse, this is barely a step above when "progressive" men were asking why Will Thomas' teammates were choosing to look at his 🍆 Shocking how many will just go along with it
Thank you for the info...loony from the get.
This woman is some kind of an exhibitionist herself.
I was listening to a space about this thread of hers and someone who used to work for a phone line for victims of sexual assault said it read like a sick exercise in self pleasure, like some calls from perverts they’d get who would get off on describing their fantasies to a stranger.
I don’t think she’s wrong. Shannon also likes to talk about her unusually high sex drive on twitter.
She's a perv and a perv enabler.
re: "someone thinking fetish thoughts.."
Here this Stinker equates Thoughts w/Action. Dressing like Shirley Temple is NOT same as Brony Thoughts.
the same as "Words are Violence.
What, is the dude 40 something and dressed in Loli? Wonderful. Absolutely nothing fetishist in nature. Black Butler, as in the poster on the wall is an amime and the story supposedly has a plot that has something supposedly to do with man-child love. I personally didn't catch it when I watched a while back and to be honest, I enjoyed the anime... but when I didn't understand the meaning behind the final episode, I was appalled to find out lots more than I wanted to.
That poster is no accident since Black Butler is not a well known anime and the creature posing in front of it likes to dress like a child.
I read her book. It is the document of a troubled woman - even before her husband started flouncing about in skirts. It is also written with obvious equivocation; she still hasn't taken any responsibility for her own behavior (she was functional adult after all) much less come to terms with his. I am not surprised she has found a home with GenSpect.